tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post5203127627581736543..comments2024-03-07T23:20:49.790-07:00Comments on Genealogy's Star: Is Genealogy Inclusive or Exclusive? James Tannerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-22061362238558554842013-10-08T02:46:32.750-07:002013-10-08T02:46:32.750-07:00James I always find your posts thought-provoking a...James I always find your posts thought-provoking and stumulating. I think it's that sense of critiquing work and seeking better practice and more knowledge that represents our growth as genealogists or family historians.Cassmob (Pauleen)https://www.blogger.com/profile/18397134336319778519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-23428426415000247132013-09-23T13:37:15.464-07:002013-09-23T13:37:15.464-07:00James, you are an inspiration for volunteers in th...James, you are an inspiration for volunteers in the genealogical world. After a tiring day helping others with their genealogical adventures, it refreshed my batteries to read this article tonight.Thank you ,and keep blogging.Magdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01335449359566720836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-22158707785536712582013-09-23T12:55:38.278-07:002013-09-23T12:55:38.278-07:00It is hard to get too involved in any discussion s...It is hard to get too involved in any discussion such as this because there are no common definitions for the words professional or hobbyist. James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-37107248499215659012013-09-23T12:54:35.279-07:002013-09-23T12:54:35.279-07:00I am also tired of making money, although I do enj...I am also tired of making money, although I do enjoy breaking even now and then.James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-67742780876502688242013-09-23T12:53:45.776-07:002013-09-23T12:53:45.776-07:00Thank you for your kind comment. You make a very g...Thank you for your kind comment. You make a very good point. I think I am too busy teaching, writing and talking to do a serious journal article, but it could happen. For now, I'll leave that up to my very talented sons and daughters. They do the journal writing more than I do. Thanks again.James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-68075624516001275142013-09-23T12:48:30.021-07:002013-09-23T12:48:30.021-07:00I guess my answer to that is, do the professional ...I guess my answer to that is, do the professional genealogists really want the level of regulation imposed on practicing attorneys and medical doctors? Is that level of regulation even necessary or desirable? Maybe we need to appreciate the diversity.James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-87352096839655086292013-09-23T12:46:36.938-07:002013-09-23T12:46:36.938-07:00Very good points. I agree. I do like to poke a lit...Very good points. I agree. I do like to poke a little at those who feel self-important however. James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-65538494695323804472013-09-23T12:44:35.132-07:002013-09-23T12:44:35.132-07:00Thanks, I agree.Thanks, I agree.James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-61858723184697944982013-09-23T12:44:17.087-07:002013-09-23T12:44:17.087-07:00Always nice to hear from you Becky. Keep up the go...Always nice to hear from you Becky. Keep up the good work.James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-73448000666404844532013-09-23T12:43:39.764-07:002013-09-23T12:43:39.764-07:00Thanks for your support.Thanks for your support.James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-5238128812693877782013-09-23T12:43:17.405-07:002013-09-23T12:43:17.405-07:00Thanks so much for your comment. Of course there a...Thanks so much for your comment. Of course there are those who cross-over the differences and who are generous with their time and expertise at any level.James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-85636254466527860532013-09-23T11:07:00.239-07:002013-09-23T11:07:00.239-07:00I think genealogy can be both a hobby and a profes...I think genealogy can be both a hobby and a profession, just like golf. I think we can, as you say, have "genealogy a broadly popular pursuit and at the same time promote "professionalism" and certification. I think the goal is for our genealogy to be "accurate" no matter what our level of involvement. Each person can choose what meets their needs. I have seen professional genealogists and hobbyists work together and help each other on many levels from local societies, to Family History Centers, to national conferences and institutes. Those you say are in the "upper echelons" of genealogy take their time to teach, mingle with, and encourage "hobbyists" on a regular basis. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02938919970422576854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-73592748269251300502013-09-23T10:21:28.577-07:002013-09-23T10:21:28.577-07:00Great post James! I once told my better half, who ...Great post James! I once told my better half, who wondered why I didn't try making money doing something I loved so much, that I was quite certain it would take all the fun out of it for me. I love helping people and offer my help frequently, but to do it as a profession is not my cup of tea. I feel I am very good at what I do, but I also know I do not measure up to those who are professionals...and I'm OK with that.Lisa Wallen Logsdonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13003873811444854964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-5893114558265806892013-09-23T09:57:21.511-07:002013-09-23T09:57:21.511-07:00James wrote:>I am certainly not on the list of ...James wrote:>I am certainly not on the list of those who are consulted about the thorny research issues that appear in the prestigious journals.<br /><br />James, being an optimist, I’d argue that this is soooo easily fixed! Just submit some of your own work to whatever journal(s) appeal to you. The editors are not at all elitist. They don't care what initials you have after your name, or whether you have any at all. (Besides, genealogy has lots of J.D.s we love and value.) What the journal editors want, and need, are good articles that demonstrate soundly done research. You'll help others by showing how you have resolved your own thorny problems. The journal editors will be grateful for your support of their journals and any other participation you offer after that. <br /><br />My own experience in this field has convinced me that no one need feel they are "on the outside looking in." All we have to do is take the plunge—as many times as need be. On first leap, we may land short of where we aimed; but the only limits on the plunges allowed are those we self-impose. You’ve created a wonderful site with GenealogyStar. Please don’t feel you aren’t appreciated on the other playing fields that exist.<br />Elizabeth Shown Millshttp://www.evidenceexplained.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-13897585375864354612013-09-23T09:38:04.751-07:002013-09-23T09:38:04.751-07:00There is room in genealogy for people of all level...There is room in genealogy for people of all levels - there must be, because nobody starts at the "top". Even an expert in one area of research may be unexperienced in another. Snobbery satisfies only the snob (and the wannabes).<br />James, you've used the analogy of lawyers and doctors as regulated professions several times. However, both law and medicine also have less rigidly regulated participants - for law, from paralegals to do-it-yourself will kits; for medicine, nurses, paramedics, first aiders, even mothers taking temperatures, removing splinters and applying bandaids. The difference seems to be mainly in the scope of the work.bgwiehlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00904956507742860598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-21141706300634874742013-09-23T08:52:36.454-07:002013-09-23T08:52:36.454-07:00James, you say "We can't have it both way...James, you say "We can't have it both ways, we can't make genealogy a broadly popular pursuit and at the same time promote "professionalism" and certification. Either it is a profession like law or medicine, highly regulated and exclusionary, or it is a broadly available pastime that invites anyone to participate."<br /><br />Here I am afraid you set up a straw man. The prevalent meaning of "profession" is the occupation to which one has a high degree of dedication. Professionalism suggests both a high degree of skill in that endeavor, and adherence to ethical standards (e.g., understanding the need to cite sources and not rip off others).<br /><br />The "initials" signify that peers have evaluated one's skills and professionalism. If you know of a real proposal that genealogical pursuits be regulated to the same extent as professions that can do real physical and/or financial harm, do come right out and state its source.<br /><br />What you are doing is increasing skill levels in research strategies, use of technology and maybe even clearer ways of thinking about how to evaluate what is found. Maybe sometimes you give out a self-produced flyer congratulating someone on their progress.<br /><br />So there are indeed many in the field who have very high skill levels -- not that every single one can not learn *something*. This does not mean they are an elite in the sense of removal from or disdain for "the masses." Many of these persons teach classes, for close-to-beginners as well as for the highly-skilled. Often these persons give generously of their time to assist someone with a research problem that may be just a step down the yellow-brick road from the seeker's amount of knowledge.<br /><br />Many highly skilled researchers do not seek the certifications that come with initials. So what? Such processes take a lot of time and effort investment that many do not have to spare. One can still try to improve one's skills in research and in organizing and evaluating what data is gathered.<br /><br />Everyone has to start somewhere. Most of us were at ground-zero at some point. It's not too much to expect that some amount of logical thinking (no one produced children before they themselves were born) and maybe a little understanding of history (the US Revolutionary War was before the War of 1812) will stick, and for some there might be a spark of interest to really learn more.<br /><br />So there is a variety of types and degrees of dedication, but the most splendid researchers, with and without initials and publication lists, can and do still talk to the novice-at-sea about ways to get better organized.<br />Geoloverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12050268303916428230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-62490237265606573302013-09-23T08:26:20.682-07:002013-09-23T08:26:20.682-07:00Nicely stated. I agree with you. There is more t...Nicely stated. I agree with you. There is more than enough room in this big genealogy world for all types of researchers.Gene Penningtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12126337768832735690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-62270489242459492772013-09-23T07:54:16.139-07:002013-09-23T07:54:16.139-07:00Bravo, James Tanner! You wrote my feelings exactly...Bravo, James Tanner! You wrote my feelings exactly, but said it so much better than I could have. I made a comment the other day on my Facebook wall with reference to this same belief, but you are much more eloquent. We in the masses embrace you for joining us, supporting us, speaking for us, for teaching us and for believing in us!Becky Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11841947942442007031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-43447891572703914682013-09-23T07:45:33.308-07:002013-09-23T07:45:33.308-07:00James - excellent post. I believe that your last t...James - excellent post. I believe that your last three lines are magnificent. As a "masses" kind of guy - I agree with those lines 100%. Thanks for stating them. I believe that by focusing on those who just want to enjoy the quest, with a few tips here and there, we can help more folks have more fun. Thanks again for this postKenneth R Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17083564419330086860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-30865134284522120262013-09-23T07:32:20.886-07:002013-09-23T07:32:20.886-07:00I love this post. I'm not a professional genea...I love this post. I'm not a professional genealogist - just a hobbyist - but this divide between "elite" and the huddled masses was one of the first things I noticed when I got started in this space. ...And it was one of the first things I noticed when I became a freelancer writer. ...And when I got into digital marketing consulting. I think we build up idols in every industry and we can choose to worship at their feet or do our own thing. That isn't to say that many elite and famous aren't that way for a reason!<br /><br />As for the question of inclusive or exclusive, I was very surprised to find a lot of griping toward amateur genealogists when I first entered this community. After I got that off my mind but blogging about it, I decided to ignore it. <br /><br />One big problem I still see is people wringing their hands and asking "Why aren't young people interested in genealogy?" Well, that whole spark-killing criticism is part of the problem. Be constructive, but don't make genealogy seem so hard and complicated that you turn people off from trying. In my experience, most people get into genealogy because a story, or an artifact or a mystery has piqued their curiosity. I think it's sad when a curmudgeonly response kills that curiosity.<br /><br />And I'll quit rambling now!Jennifer Dunnhttp://jennealogy.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com