tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post5406668268722387986..comments2024-03-21T19:08:05.737-07:00Comments on Genealogy's Star: The Sequestration of Expertise not its DeathJames Tannerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-17641128248869422972014-04-15T00:55:15.411-07:002014-04-15T00:55:15.411-07:00:-) It was a less-than-flattering description of t...:-) It was a less-than-flattering description of the art of collecting names & dates (just like stamp collecting) without regard to history, verification, or sources.Tony Proctorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18330460400737261264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-77224441037191290682014-04-14T18:57:47.169-07:002014-04-14T18:57:47.169-07:00+Tony Proctor I liked your reply, but lost your t...+Tony Proctor I liked your reply, but lost your train of thought at philately- study of stamps? Could you restate that part? Sorry, I don't want to assume I know what you meant there. Thanks so much. BTW, not a criticism, just a request for clarification. :)<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18125985129847518735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-35729074749321252522014-04-07T17:29:43.080-07:002014-04-07T17:29:43.080-07:00Randy, I don't understand the comments in your...Randy, I don't understand the comments in your second paragraph in view of your No. 14 in your own post of 7 April 2014. There, you are not saying that the "elites"("credentialed genealogists") are into shaming people. BDMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13798944688122545676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-38125952021884306732014-04-06T13:20:09.053-07:002014-04-06T13:20:09.053-07:00Thanks Harold, that does sound like a good idea. I...Thanks Harold, that does sound like a good idea. I will put it in the lineup for a future blog post. Thanks again. James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-69956334045060269702014-04-06T10:32:38.338-07:002014-04-06T10:32:38.338-07:00James, you could be part of the solution by explai...James, you could be part of the solution by explaining the relevance of a particular peer-reviewed article in one of your blog posts. (If you yourself think they're irrelevant to your research, that would be a different issue!) Granted, that can't be the first lesson that new people learn but it will strike a chord with some of those a little farther along. We all need to learn that there is methodology involved and not just name chasing. <br />Harold Hendersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12217640113047709249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-4848928364605966022014-04-05T21:26:05.025-07:002014-04-05T21:26:05.025-07:00James, this reminds me of the old adage about beco...James, this reminds me of the old adage about becoming a good writer. "If you want to become a good writer, read well-written books." I think the same applies to genealogy writing. Readers need access to good, well-researched publications, or they'll never be able to emulate it. (Tip: Many times you can find these peer-reviewed journals that are still in copyright online at FamilySearch Books, even though they're not supposed to be there.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-34549312130023398162014-04-05T15:20:24.146-07:002014-04-05T15:20:24.146-07:00Good points. I think it is a sort-off if we build ...Good points. I think it is a sort-off if we build it they will come attitude towards the family tree users. James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-47325254784272140182014-04-05T15:18:26.411-07:002014-04-05T15:18:26.411-07:00I agree but I think that peer-reviewed journals do...I agree but I think that peer-reviewed journals do not address the issues apparent in online user-contributed family trees.James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-62853001854001480062014-04-05T15:16:57.382-07:002014-04-05T15:16:57.382-07:00I agree. Thanks for your comment. We do have an ob...I agree. Thanks for your comment. We do have an obligation to teach, especially if we are inclined to criticize those who need teaching.James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-69449931565452188342014-04-05T14:37:20.570-07:002014-04-05T14:37:20.570-07:00Having read both your (long-)blog and Michael'...Having read both your (long-)blog and Michael's, I don't see much disagreement James. In fact, I believe you're both seeing part of a bigger issue. I believe, like many people, that there is something wrong with existing genealogy, but I'm not smart enough to get it all in focus. We complain that academic history frowns on genealogy, but genealogy has its very own professional standards which aren't shared by anyone else. Those standards are important for professionals -- people who perform research for clients -- but where's the incentive for simple hobbyists. In the class I used to give, I never encountered a single person who had even heard of BCG. We talk of a community but I'm starting to feel more, and more, that there's a gulf between genealogists and software people. Articles in a journal may be peer-reviewed, and even a research blog could be peer-reviewed in principle, but how do you peer-review a mere tree. Commercial Web sites are deliberately throwing more hits at us to make it easier for the person-in-the-street, and they also encourage us to participate in philately with the details of biological lineage. Maybe if they didn't do this then genealogy wouldn't appear as popular as it does now. What they're churning out is not so much results for serious researchers as "tree fodder", or fruit-for-the-tree.<br /><br />I know this outpouring is a little uncoordinated but having read it back, I think I'm suggesting that the apparent ease (no narrative writing, no citations, only online research, just trees) is the price we pay for a popular pastime, which in turn is necessary for the investment (digitisation, Web sites, products) in the field of genealogy. If all we had were scholarly articles -- whether in journals or online -- then there would be fewer people in the "community".Tony Proctorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18330460400737261264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-12218309785158236512014-04-05T14:35:48.341-07:002014-04-05T14:35:48.341-07:00Then, James, you have your teaching work laid out ...Then, James, you have your teaching work laid out for you--to teach the value and merit of traditional methods alongside internet methods. Just as the so-called "elites" need to be sure to value and recognize the online methods. All of us who teach in the field have that obligation. In so doing, we help protect others' intellectual property and respect their work, as well as teach our students the power and value of a broad array of research techniques and skills.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-31663296987990948792014-04-05T14:13:56.191-07:002014-04-05T14:13:56.191-07:00While I much appreciate your overview, I think you...While I much appreciate your overview, I think you were a little off-target regarding the peer-reviewed journals "and many others" referred to by Michael regarding the 20th-century trend ("Throughout the twentieth century . . .").<br /><br />21st-century blogs, webinars, google+ hangouts and other media are worthy continuations of the trend toward making good genealogical methods more available. Since they are often public and freely accessed, they too are 'peer reviewed' and their creators as well as the genealogical and historical societies are constantly seeking more outreach methods.<br /><br />Maintaining and spreading the word concerning methods and the learning process itself is a persistent struggle, particularly in a country where the public education system is so often underfunded and unsuccessful regarding literacy and understanding of history.<br /><br />All efforts in this vein deserve praise to those willing to take time and effort to spread the word.<br /><br /><br />Geoloverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12050268303916428230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-22122309086740173272014-04-05T12:03:15.398-07:002014-04-05T12:03:15.398-07:00I realize that the journals are likely available i...I realize that the journals are likely available in libraries but I have a hard time getting new genealogists to look at books these days, much less journals. James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-2990158456853255362014-04-05T12:02:11.682-07:002014-04-05T12:02:11.682-07:00I always get interesting comments whenever I talk ...I always get interesting comments whenever I talk about anything in the peer-review community. James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-15621332925456906812014-04-05T12:00:53.700-07:002014-04-05T12:00:53.700-07:00I am speaking from experience since my daughter ha...I am speaking from experience since my daughter had to email me to correct a typo this morning.James Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02989059644120454647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-53837824873947463342014-04-05T11:47:37.819-07:002014-04-05T11:47:37.819-07:00Maybe instead of motivating "very newly minte...Maybe instead of motivating "very newly minted genealogy students as to why they should pay for a subscription so they can read these articles," they should not expect everything to be instantly available, but should get off their arses and "get thee to a library" (with apologies to Mr. Shakespeare).Janis Gilmorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00274753329312114126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-81493924057265765012014-04-05T10:03:07.205-07:002014-04-05T10:03:07.205-07:00Thank you for the commentary. I agree pretty much...Thank you for the commentary. I agree pretty much with you (surprised?). What the internet has done is bring the hidden voices of a great many people to the conversation, and the elites don't like it. Everyone can participate and find a group of like-minded people.<br /><br />Of course, the ignorant are exposed more rapidly. The "tolerant" and "social justice" elites are really into shaming people for making one (or more!) poorly worded or thought out comment and holding it against them forever. <br /><br />For me, the real value of the peer-reviewed journals is to be good examples of scholarship and research methodology rather than for specific family research (although the Thomas Gleason article in NEHGS is about "my" guy). They are usually available for free in genealogy libraries which few online researchers visit any longer. A shame, that. Randy Seaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17477703429102065294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1527613590529958801.post-88272123196591584342014-04-05T09:31:29.067-07:002014-04-05T09:31:29.067-07:00Thank-you James for a very thought-provoking artic...Thank-you James for a very thought-provoking article (as usual!) I know that I have been helped by others reading my blog and asking questions - usually very nicely worded to kindly point out a possible flaw. I actually like it when people point something out to me because, as you say, it's an opportunity to learn.<br /><br />Right now I am in contact with someone who was questioning how I knew that a particular person was my 4th-great-grandfather. Turns out I meant to type 4th great-granduncle...really I did! But it was great to meet a new cousin - and also to correct my assertion on my blog Diana Ritchiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05954839264299339937noreply@blogger.com